[Mark Palmer]

If you think the attitude is rottten tell them the debt will remain on file.Small claims court or at least the threat of legal action may change their perspective.You need signed paper work to show they agreed to the cancel policy. Write it off as bad debt in your accounts. You need to factor non payment into your business model

[Mark Palmer]

Hey all,

Over the last 12 years I’ve had similar experiences to you Eliza and I can empathise.

The push and pull of sticking by your policy/giving them a pass… If you don’t charge the first time it happens are you setting them up to expect the same the next time?

Ive tried various methods, and its particularly stressful when you have made it completely clear when they began lessons of your cancellation policy.

One method ive used over the years is the first time pass. This is an opportunity to show a kindness but with total clarity of your payment policy no matter what the circumstance after the first incident. If the student really does want to continue they’ll appreciate you showing compassion(and will remember it in coming times too) but most importantly is punctuated by reminding them of your policy going forward. In all its very reasonable, and puts you, the teacher in a strong position in any other following recurrences.

In the event of someone stopping lessons in any case…To echo what Matt mentioned, often people jump on these situations as a way of stopping lessons, for reasons that are likely unrelated to the performance of the teacher…e.g. Money/child not practising/stopping lessons as poor behaviour in other areas of their life!!

Its hard not to take it to heart, I always remind myself I don’t want to deal with/teach people who aren’t willing to show respect for my time and income, hence making room for another student who will.

I hope it works out

Mark

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[Mark Palmer]

Implement a Pay when you book policy. Since I adopted this payment system I haven’t had any problems. Its a neat way of weeding out people who think its ok to mess you about. If you don’t value your own time then how can you expect anyone else too. Sounds harsh, but anyone who is worth teaching will understand and respect it.:)

[Mark Palmer]

I do simple drills for all my students.

1. Playing a scale along to a metronome; beginning slowly and increasing tempo upon success until unable to. Logging the highest bpm and aiming to improve the following week. Ive found it gives the student an objective target to aim for(thats they can also replicate in their own time too). Plus, it functions as a diagnostic when the bpm speed is just out of their reach it highlights the good/bad aspects of their technique, which can then be addressed.

2. Timing common chord changes in a minute, Loggin the result from one lesson to the next. Again the numbers are a focus and are an objective result. If the numbers go down form one week next we can address the what the potential causes etc.

I think these approaches work because anyone can tell someone how well they’re doing and stroke people egos etc. Numbers/result cant be the whole story, but they’re a useful indicator of progress. Im sure in the beginning we’ve all felt like we weren’t improving from one day.week to the next. Ive found this gives the student a way of mapping their progress, or encourages adjustment to make the most of their practise

[Mark Palmer]

This is a a repost from the Cancellation policy thread which might be useful to delve into

I used to be super chilled about people cancelling lessons i.e. i wouldn’t charge for cancellations at all, people would pay at the end of the lesson etc…. after a few years of teaching i encountered a few of students who seemed take my relaxed approach as a liberty. It seems that by me being super chilled they too could be super chilled about too, in other words if i don’t value my time then how can i expect them to? I decided to implement a ‘pay when you book’ policy, with the understanding if they cancelled ahead of time within reason(Them forgetting doesn’t qualify!)I would always try to rearrange the lesson if possible to another day close to their original booking.

What i don’t indulge is someone who sees me on a weekly(or any other variable) recurrence to rearrange the missed lesson to the following week(or variable), that i explain respectfully is missing the point of the policy. I made people aware of this at the first lesson, and i explained v nicely that they were booking my time and that was their commitment to it. The implications of booking my time and not being able to make it for something unforeseen was: It stops other potentials students booking that slot when they’ve booked it(so other people have to wait longer or goto a later slot in following weeks)and i also turn other engagements down(music or otherwise)once they have chosen to book my time.

I want the student to have the lesson and for them to not feel like they’re missing out(i do have a <3), thats why i offer the solution of them being being able to rearrange if possible, they hopefully see the goodwill in me doing so, even though i might still miss out if i cant book someone else in the missed time slot booked.

Any student who respects this and truly understands, never quibbles and they offer before i have to nicely remind them of the understanding we came to when they began booking my time. Like all things in life there is room for mitigation, if i have a good relationship and their reasons are extraordinary(bereavement etc) i do often waive the lesson to the following recurrence or credit with the lesson i booked, I’m not a faceless business or complete robot, but thats personal to my judgement of the situation at that time.

Just my two cents worth. thanks

[Mark Palmer]

Great question!!!

In the daytime, teaching Shift workers/Retirees or prepping my lessons for later in the day, or training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to keep active!! The last few years Ive found the more active i keep myself the more i can do..physically and mentally.

Previous years to that realisation I certainly did spend time lying around in the day doing nothing productive. It just fed into a greater sense of doing little…the less you do the less you want to do…

[Mark Palmer]

The situation tends to be parents insisting their child learns to read music(standard notation) alongside learning to play the instrument or starting a grade(both which are very good skills/pursuits). Im happy to do both but not at the expense of the students enjoyment. If the students isn’t enjoying it, you really have very little as a teacher to work with..

Ive experienced this only a few times, with parents with children that tend to be ages of 6-10. I will not force anyone through a vicarious situation if they’re clearly not enjoying it. Its so easy to lose sight of what attracted them to the instrument in the first place when focusing on other matters/results!

What else is going to compel them to practise outside of lessons?

Ive had to tell parents very nicely they should encourage their child to pursue what makes them want to play the instrument, then they shouldn’t have to nag them to ‘practise/play’. It really is a harder point to ‘pitch’ to parents with these ideas, because of their preconceptions of they think is good for their child in this learning situation. Its never easy, but if what you’re saying is for the good for their child they should respond positively. Peace:)

[Mark Palmer]

As previously mentioned, i dont think there is a substitute for 1-2-1 tuition, where you can ask questions and be shown in an interactive sense!

The misinformation aspect of YT is plain to see(amongst some really good stuff too), but in a way it can also elevate your abilities as a matter of comparison!

If you can show a superior, expedient technique/approach(or debunk the misinformation acquired on YT) then it will only enforce that people are getting their monies worth by booking you. No doubt, its annoying sometimes having to unravel mis-info that happens to be objectively inaccurate!, and often can hold up the mid/long term progress of the student. Personally, i try to work with the any info if possible(mis-info aside), or see it as another approach rather than flatly dismiss it. Again, sometimes this isn’t always possible!

On the other side of the coin, I’m sure we can all think of the successful, inspiring artists who have eschewed regular ‘technique’ and made something interesting around their style. For the rest of us mere mortals, who struggle, its good to have the option of another approach; some might say tried-and-tested, traditional, universally recognised…

Peace x

[Mark Palmer]

Don’t book any lessons in until you have been paid in advance.

With this payment system If someone forgets then the next time slot they’re asking for will not be booked in > take place until payment has been received.

Its annoying that we have to resort to this method, but the good thing is that it roots out ‘bad custom’ and makes room for a decent, honest, hardworking student

Its works for me anyhow:) I hope it improves!!!

[Mark Palmer]

I don’t think its healthy(for us as teachers) to make expectations that could on the worst side of a situation, leave us feeling let down or out of pocket. What works for me personally is students paying for booked time in advance, i expect no more than that and i always end up with what i expect financially, and consequently I’m rarely annoyed or let down. This wasn’t always the case!

If they want to quit at any point, i accept that its their prerogative to do so…in other words you can’t control their decision(we would all like to think they would play ball with our T&Cs when they agree and start lessons with us). Trying to enforce particular T&Cs that are seemingly unenforceable is a road to frustration when dealing with certain types of people. Make your T&Cs so that you’re guarded by them, rather than relying on someones decency or expected social etiquette(even if you have made it clear and they agreed to them). Some people will always take the road of least confrontation/friction…telling someone that their services aren’t required seems to be too much for some people and they will avoid that at all costs.

Its disheartening, esp when you’ve made it very clear, but the reality is people will behave this way. Protect yourself and your time with advance payments and then let the rest happen, if they’re messing you about by not turning up or stopping before they agreed, then they’re making room for a new student with a better attitude

[Mark Palmer]

I like some of the things I’ve read since I last posted on this thread.

Im always happy to rearrange a lesson(which are all pre paid as they are booked in) if I have the space to do so in the couple of days surrounding the original booking time, its a small mercy and I actually want the student to have their lesson.

Yes, I might of made a loss in some respect regarding the cancelled time slot. Worst case for all, I’m too busy or away and therefore cannot rearrange.

If they normally pay by bank transfer I ask for the next lessons payment assuming they’d like to book the following lesson as confirmation of their intention, or make it clear that ill take payment for the lesson on the day and the following lesson if they wish to book, this is a subtle way of reminding them of my payment policy.

I used to have all sorts of problems years ago, I do not have any problems any longer.

Value your own time and you invite people to do so too. If you don’t value your own time, you invite people to not value it equally.

Its a tough one, and you gotta be brave, you might lose some students…but then did you really want to teach people like that anyway?

These types of people bring alot of stress and discomfort, and they tend to be the kind who wouldn’t indulge it if the shoe was on the other foot with their source of income.

Just my cents worth peace:)

[Mark Palmer]

Hi Wes,

Its always difficult when illness/out of control situations occur and cause cancellations. No one is really to blame, so why should they lose out?

The truth is, and as harsh as it might sound, thats their business. They have made a commitment to booking your time whether they can attend or not, thats your business. You rightly point out by them booking your time it stops others from doing so, plus maybe something else outside of teaching you might of chosen to do if that time wasn’t booked.

I used to have these very same problems before i implemented pay-when-you-book system, if they cant make the lesson you already have the money so you don’t lose out in that moment.

Will this cause you to lose a student even though you’ve been paid? Maybe, its a juggling act; lose a lessons pay or the potential further of successful lessons?

Ask yourself will you rue losing someone who clearly has no understanding/respect for your time? Cutting this kind of attitude out makes way for people with the right attitude, being frank from the get go eliminates the potential for people to object. If you’ve told them your policy(inc. illness)there isn’t much they can say if the situation arises.

I found the more it is indulged (letting people off) the more it will happen, it could be a goto excuse in the future and be abused in the wrong hands.

I hope it works out

[Mark Palmer]

I used to be super chilled about people cancelling lessons i.e. i wouldn’t charge for cancellations at all, people would pay at the end of the lesson etc…. after a few years of teaching i encountered a few of students who seemed take my relaxed approach as a liberty. It seems that by me being super chilled they could be super chilled about too, in other words if i don’t value my time then how can i expect them to? I decided to implement a ‘pay when you book’ policy, with the understanding if they cancelled ahead of time within reason(Them forgetting doesn’t qualify!)I would always try to rearrange the lesson if possible to another day close to their original booking.

What i don’t indulge is someone who sees me on a weekly(or any other variable) recurrence to rearrange the missed lesson to the following week(or variable), that i explain respectfully is missing the point of the policy. I made people aware of this at the first lesson, and i explained v nicely that they were booking my time and that was their commitment to it. The implications of booking my time and not being able to make it for something unforeseen was: It stops other people being in that slot while they’ve booked it(so other people have to wait longer or goto a later slot in following weeks)and i also turn other engagements down(music or otherwise)when they have chosen to book my time. I want the student to have the lesson and for them to not feel like they’re missing out(i do have a <3), thats why i offer the solution of them being being able to rearrange if possible, they hopefully see the goodwill in me doing so, even though i might still miss out if i cant book someone else in the missed time slot booked.

Anyone student who respects this and truly understands, never quibbles and they offer before i have to nicely remind them of the understanding we came to when they began booking my time. Like all things in life there is room for mitigation, if i have a good relationship and their reasons are extraordinary(bereavement etc) i do often waive the lesson to the following recurrence or credit with the lesson i booked, I’m not a faceless business or complete robot, but thats personal to my judgement of the situation at that time.

Just my two cents worth. thanks

[Mark Palmer]

‘So Whats Your Proper Job?’

Ive heard this phrase a number of times over the years. It normally follows my answer to the question what i do for a job/living?

I imagine that a portion of it stems from people assuming rightly or wrongly, its not possible to make a ‘living’ from solely teaching. Interestingly, it often comes from fellow players/muso themselves, maybe its an element of projection on their part?? Personally, Ive never been insulted by it, although i can understand why anyone might be, with all the assumption based in such a question!! Im sure part of it too comes from some people not understanding its value or worth, i could be wrong but other peoples opinion are their business

I have only ever heard this comment from people who don’t really know me or heard me play/teach (stands to reason if they ask what i do for living in the first place?!) Im sure thats true for everyone on this forum too!

All that being said, I do totally understand where Leigh Fuge is coming from, i initially started teaching alongside a part time job that i did 3 days a week. I was lucky enough to make enough either side of the jobs to live modestly on. When the time came I relinquished my ‘real’ jobwhich then opened up more time/commitment to teaching. It turns out it gave me more time to take on new students, plus it made me improve as a teacher. I was able to dedicate myself to honing my craft without any distractions. It was a leap of faith, and as of now it has paying off..

I can understand what Kat Hunter means about certain questions about the standard of decor and living I’m surrounded by. My teaching space is, after 20 years of playing/collecting; well stocked!!!(20 + guitars, amps, drum kits, pianos, PA, bit of a musical magpie >.>. ) For better or worse, when people see this i think people realise its not just a ‘hobby/pastime’ but a genuine passion which has grown into a vocation with a number of arms/facets!!

Id like to point out, that i have worked in sports shop for £2.50 an hour(i am that old!!!), recycling centres chucking paper into a hole every second for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, answering phones for taxi companies…. all sorts before settling into this groove!!

Forgive my wall of text, just my take on a common misconception for the most part.

Peace x